Re: Dark Energy Project First Light

[droege@snapmail.us]

Robert, what you do when you have a theory like Dark Energy is to dream up
an experiment that will shed some light on the matter.  That is what we
are doing.  We will go off and take a bunch of measurements and then see
what they tell us about matter.

Now if you think the universe might be alive, then figure out an
experiment that will demonstrate that.  That is what science is about.  If
you want faith, then you should go to a different church.  This "church"
mostly "believes" in the scientific method.  It may or may not be right,
but that is what we do here.

I am perfectly willing to be open minded.  I think the whole scheme is
crazy.  The universe is just too big.  The world is not logical.  Human
beings are not logical.  However, one can agree to do science.  Then you
have a set of rules to work by.  There is no "proving" that these rules
are correct.  But that is OK.  If you work within the rules then the
results of the work will be "correct" within the framework of the game we
are playing.

But it is just a game.  One should not take the world seriously.

Tom Droege


>
> The only problem I have will all of the Dark Matter and
> Dark Energy stuff is that as far as I can tell it rests
> on the fact that there is an implicit assumption that
> "The UNIVERSE is DEAD".
>
> I've taken Physics from several Nobel prize winners and
> never *once* did it come up in class that the Universe
> just might be alive.  Well DUH, we are here after all
> aren't we.  And as Dyson *who* was and still is a rather
> famous physicist pointed out 45 years ago in Science
> if we keep going way we are going we are going to hit
> the limits of our solar power output in ~800 years.
>
> That implies that civilizations can grow *very* fast.
> (i.e. less than ~7000 years from beating "civilized"
> implements out of the ground to reaching the edge
> of development that your solar system allows.)
>
> Now as I recall, this whole Dark Energy/Dark Matter
> debate *started* when there were minute fluctuations
> detected in the CMBR.  Well couldn't this be due to
> "globular clusters" of advanced technological
> civilizations at various locations near us in
> the universe?  Minsky pointed out to Dyson nearly
> 30 years ago that any thermodynamically advanced
> civilization is going to radiate waste heat only
> slightly above the temperature of the CMBR.
> (For those of you who don't know Minsky is one
> of the primary fathers of AI.)
>
> Until I see some concrete evidence that the
> Dark Energy/Dark Matter can have no possible
> "artificial" source I'm going to remain in
> the "you haven't thought the Universe through
> well enough yet" camp.
>
> Oh yes, and just for the record, Charlie Lineweaver's
> group has published a number of papers documenting
> on the probability that at least 70% of the "Earths"
> in the galaxy are likely to be older than ours --
> some by billions of years.  So you might want to stir the
> implications of that around in your mind a little bit...
>
> :-)
>
> Robert
>
> (And just for the record -- this comment isn't intended
> to rain on anyone's parade.  I understand we are all
> doing our part.  I just sometimes wish some could be
> a little bit more open minded.)
>
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